Showing posts with label assumptions. Show all posts
Showing posts with label assumptions. Show all posts

Wednesday, July 5, 2017

Living with Black People

Here you can see your average white, liberal lady blogger:


Patient C in a dress her family called "retro hippie" with dog, Lucky.
Or you can see PatientC, me: white lady, disabled mom, loyal wife and girl friend, #Resist Bitch, Proud mom of Girls that with her belong to the #LGBT/#QUILTBAG community, poor Randian leech, sometimes obese but usually just a few pounds "overweight," Buddhist and ULC minister, neuroatypical rabble rouser and oversharing blogger. 

One thing (among many) that you cannot see is this: I live with black people

To my surprise, the data backed up my observation that not many people live with people that do not look like them. In the US, even outside of racist housing policies from corporate to governmental, people tend to self segregate not just along class but racial lines. There is so much material out there on redlining, racist home loans, government segregation, the Northern migration and then later, smaller repatriation. Go look, academics and commentators have formed whole careers saying things about this and you should know about this in the US if you live here, or see if it happened where you live if you live elsewhere.

What I want to focus on here is that my white family of weirdos is even more weird because we chose to live among different folks. 90% of our neighbors are African American. This makes a lot of the people in our lives black. It means that policy meant to affect black citizens probably changes our lives too - in a secondary if not a primary way. If there is a fire nearby, or a shooting, or a tree falls in our area, we stand outside and work with black people to see if help is needed or comment helplessly if that all we can do.

Within site of our house, we have one neighbor that is a white guy. He is a disabled vet with a Latina wife. Minion One sometimes house sits for them, which changed their life. They participate in the local feral cat program & never felt like they could vacation for more than a weekend and now, if they can scrape together the cash, they can go visit her relatives and not worry about home or the kitties. 

On the opposite corner to ours is a Vietnamese lady that was cool for a decade and a half but now has some beef about the breed of my dog. One of the same breed knocked her down once and once she realized I had the same breed of dog she stopped talking to me. But it is the kind of beef you get anywhere from anyone, nothing special about the fact that she comes from where she comes from and I am so white as to appear translucent. 

The neighbors just south of us are a black couple with a couple of grown children from previous marriages. In the summer of blood here, a few summers ago, they lost a grown son to a gas station shooting - he was just there, gassing up his car. We got to know each other after that - their opinion on white people (I later found out) was profoundly changed because I checked in on them each day for that terrible first week, and off and on thereafter. But I only found out because they had family/friends parked around the block, including around our corner yard. When I asked about it, I was devastated: he was another guy that thought it was funny that I played Halo. Another black guy, something incidental to our conversation, but race mattered in how the case was reported and treated. 

Now we lean on each other as needed. Hell, my dog Nissi came from a litter sired by their dog - the husband helped pick and nurture her specifically for me. He was under the opinion that I needed a dog for company as the Minions grow up and I am out in the yard alone with some frequency. So now I have a wonderful nanny dog that loves everyone but from her pit bull looks folks assume she only wants to eat their face and I am never hassled by strangers anymore. I take Nissi over to play with her dad and sister at least once a week, like neighbors might do.

Our mailman is Nigerian, he loves our dogs and chats. He is terrific at his job so we leave a card with a small token of appreciation in the mailbox at the end of the year. Not a big deal, really. 

I can keep going. I can re-agonize about the black kid under a white sheet that summer. He was only there because a cop thought he was suspicious or a suspect or something. He was unarmed, doing nothing illegal or unusual, just walking down the neighborhood street. When the Minions were younger he was one of the kids that got cold water bottles from me when they were running around playing like kids do. 

Some of those kids have grown, left, and now some are coming back. My guys get asked about that white lady with the cold water and if she is still here. It warms my heart to be remembered like that! I did not consider, however, that I was also the first white lady they ever talked to outside of school or other regimented experience. I was just looking after the kids like their moms.

Or I could rant about how we chose this for ourselves and the Minions. It was vitally important to me that the kids attend class with people that did not all look like them. Turned out, sometimes they were the only white faces in their class. I stand by that decision. Now the Minions are at a loss when they hear about how white and black people in the US sometimes see each other. They bristle when they hear about racism or racist practices. They are trained to get out in front when there is trouble because they are so much likely to fare better when interacting with authority. They have seen the school to prison pipeline. They have seen what I call the abstinence to poverty parenting pipeline.

We try to be good neighbors, like folks do. Every time a new family moves in, we introduce ourselves, if appropriate, as the crazy crackers on the corner. We affirm that we have lived in this place for over 15 years. Our neighbors ask about race and political issues more since the last election than ever before. I field these questions like when neighborhood girls used to ask me about white people hair - with patience and dignity. I tell the Minions to remember that even just to ask is to risk, so when they get asked race questions to do the same with the knowledge that the tenor of their response may determine if the folks asking ever try to do so again. 

What is the point here, then? To affirm that some of us do live what we believe, as much as we can, and raise our kids/Minions to do the same. To remind folks that our neighbors are not their neighbors, but at the same time are their neighbors. Once the racial tension settles, and folks know we are not, in fact, the villains in a Spike Lee joint, we were accepted as good neighbors. We had to get past our fictive kinship with other white people to show that we are decent folks. Although we did not deserve that distrust, we understood and accepted that we would have to be better folks to be thought of as good folks. We endeavor to do this every time we get new neighbors.

This is why I react with rage when black mothers grieve over the pointless loss of another black child. This is why when a mentally ill man was shot by a cop at a corner church here I was livid: the family had to raise money for a headstone while that cop was honored in event after event. Apparently shooting a crazy person is something that they honor. But to me these are people - kids and neighbors, not a dehumanized demographic.

This is part of why I get called a "race traitor" and shit when needless black death permeates the culture again for a few moments: I am not set to default white sympathy. My "we" is my family, friends, and neighbors... my "we" is not just white folks.

And yeah, I sometimes bristle when white do gooder liberals are accused of carelessness and callousness. I get it, and I never criticize the folks with that beef: I see it too, and the few holdouts like me and mine never outweigh legit beef over the movement as a whole. There is so much left to do, and current US culture is in full reverse mode regressing on everything from shrinking the franchise to struggling to re-stigmatize LGBT folks. 

Why post this? Not to excuse any past, present, or future race faux paux, hurt, or damage I may have caused nor to flaunt my meager efforts. I post this just as a way of pointing to a spot and saying "I am here." Maybe it will mean something to someone that needs to know that in this mess of a country and time there are still people out there doing what they can to do things differently. 


Wednesday, November 13, 2013

Thoughts on a Poly Paper

A G+ friend posted this article, and asked my opinion on it. I found my little soapbox and the energy to climb on it for a little while, and I thought I would share the results with you. Life has been hectic here, the reinstatement of coverage means I am running back and forth, making, breaking (stupid flares!) and arranging appointments.


The following has only been edited to remove social niceties and make more sense as a blog post. The meaning, if you can find any, has remained intact!

__________

The poly article from the UK can be found here.


Hi! Sorry it took awhile to get to this, but I wanted to give it some solid attention. Thanks for asking me what I think, here! I am going to make some notes as I go, so I do not forget anything.

Interesting that the author assumes that while thoughts regarding sexuality get attention in poly relationships, that issues regarding class, education, race, gender, religion and other issues do not. I would argue that all those issues get the same, if not more attention as they do in a monogamous relationship. But a lot of the ins and outs of relationships in general are like that, included in the basics of all intimate partnerings but not often touched upon in poly specific materials.

I started to feel odd and left out by the author, fitting only a few of the list of presumed identities being thrust upon me by assumption, you know? The thing about poly families is that they continue to identify with the communities they already know and embrace, whether that be the LGBT/QUILTBAG communities or a group held together by racial ties or religious affiliation... You do not stop being what and who you are just because you discover that your ability to romantically love is qualitative rather than quantitative.

Something I thought the author ignored is that most literature available on the mass market on sexual differences starts by coming from largely middle class white men and rarely women. The first literature I saw about folks that are trans was about folks that were white, gay and white, pervy and white, intersexual and white... Since that is still the narrative that is most accepted by the people that hold the keys to the mass market, that is what we largely get. The Internet was the same at first, but now anyone that can access the 'net can write about their experiences. And maybe even get taken seriously.


After reading more, I think that perhaps I was initially too harsh on the author of this work. They are criticizing the existing material for obvious failings when it comes to addressing issues important to everyone outside of the “standard human” or even “standard USian” type: racial justice, actually economic opportunity equality, gender issues… Now, on the other hand, had these white (really, we are still using “European stock?” 1895 called and wants that term back!), middle class, mostly male, mostly college educated, mostly Christian, mostly Western folks tried to include issues of which they had no real familiarity - we would have pilloried them for speaking for other folks. 

Rather, we need to make room for those voices, I think, to speak to their own truth. What they could have done was include voices with experiences vastly different from their own, and they are responsible for not doing just that.

I think the truth is that we come to polyamory on our own, out in whatever world we live in, and some are able to act on that because we have more societal freedom, and some are free to act on that because they are already so despised, so disregarded that one more “sin” does not matter. Maybe there are a lot more of us out there, unable to do so much as a Google search free of fear of being discovered, rapidly unemployed and ostracized or even physically hurt or killed. It is true that “family focused” jerks like Rick Santorum have started using poly families as their new big scary thought for the USian public, and folks are not ready to take that kind of bigotry seriously because we are all seen as a kind of outlier, by desire or by sentence.

I think that the author was brave, taking a little understood and derided part of her life and using it for a professional paper. Kudos to her! And it is a good read, with solid information. By being a woman writing about polyamory, she is contributing a work that is not as “mainstream” as some of the authors she sites. One thing I have noticed about various movements is that they purchase mainstream acceptance by being represented by mainstream bodies. These white, middle-classed, college educated men putting out poly works will help gain mainstream acceptance. I would like us to be a solid community accepting of all comers first, but it rarely seems to happen that way.

(Thanks for giving me a heads up! I liked the piece, and feel honored that you asked for my take. I hope you do not regret it now! - my personal note to the person asking for my opinion. I explained that I might use my side of the conversation as a blog post and the idea was met happily.)


__________

I hope that you, dear Reader, do not regret how you spent your time just now. If you have thoughts about my thoughts about this paper, please feel free to discuss them below. I do respond to comments and I like getting them (for the most part, the Blogger filters help a lot with unwanted spam!). 

Thursday, August 29, 2013

So Much Depends on a Little Red Plus Sign

Most social networks have a method by which you can show your approval of a post. Whether it is "plussing" on G+, "liking" on Facebook, "favoriting" a post on Twitter, pushing/trusting/liking on Sulia, and pinning and/or heart'ing on Pinterest you have a way of saying "I approve of this." The problem is, there is no way of adding why you approve of a post, and I want to break down why I give things this silent mark of approval:


  • I may like your post because I believe the same thing, word for word. This is the damn for me, although it seems it is the one that folks always assume is meant when you plus.
  • I may favorite your tweet because I am glad you said a thing, whether I agree or not. I may just believe that your thought needs to be out there in the ether. I believe in fostering intelligent dialog when possible.
  • You and I may be friends, so I plus your stuff that makes sense in order to encourage you to express yourself. 
  • I may appreciate the opportunity to see a product or idea. Maybe I did not even know it existed until you posted it.
  • I may pin something just because it is pretty or suits my aesthetics.
  • Maybe you posted something that took skill or bravery to post and I noticed.
  • Sometimes I may actively disagree with a post, but appreciate the way something was said. Maybe it was an innovate way of looking at the issue, or had a personal touch that made the post evocative. Maybe it was just damn good writing. This goes back to fostering intelligent dialog when possible.
  • Maybe you were just damn funny and I lol'ed.
  • Every once in a while, I will fat-finger a post and plus/like/pin something I did not mean to. You know what I mean, you are looking at one thing and press the button you think will favorite your target but instead you ended up "liking" something horrible. Sometimes, it takes someone pointing it out to find out that it even happened. This is the most rare of cases, and I will immediately correct, if possible, when asked about it. Because I am a grown-up and can admit I screwed up.
  • Liking/+1'ing are good ways to keep track of a post as it develops. I may just want to see what happens next...
I bet you experience this problem: someone sees that you put your stamp of approval on one thing a person wrote and now you are responsible for everything that person ever wrote, ever. There are a lot of reasons to stamp someone's post, but people will usually assume that you did it for whatever reason makes them the most angry. I ask first before I assume, and it is my opinion that other folks should ask first too. We should not let assumptive, aggressive anger overrule common sense. 

On most services such as G+, Facebook, Twitter, Pinterest, Sulia you can undo your stamp of approval. Usually you can just click the same button again, the label on the button usually changes to reflect this functionality, but not in every case. If you no longer wish to have approved a post, a group, or a person - you can change your approval status to reflect that, to a degree. I rather like Buzzfeed's method of giving the user several adjectives to choose from to voice an opinion on a piece.


Monday, May 20, 2013

Is there Cake? I Was Told...


Or: Is diagnosis fatigue a thing? I do not want another thing...


Do not be surprised if posts that are not particularly timely start showing up as I attempt to clean up my drafts with a “put it up or dump it” eye. Except the Angel Pillows piece. It makes me shudder, but I need to do it.  Sometime. Dammit.


I have to do something to not feel useless sitting in my office chair to re-situate my SI Joint Dysfunction. That mostly looks like doing nothing and can rapidly deteriorate into actually doing nothing. Well, or what other folks might call nothing but I call Internet Rabbit Hole/Tabspolsion Learning Time!


I recently realized that after the first couple diagnosis I received, after the first couple of dozen prescriptions and recommendations and all of that - I stopped being Super Learning Gimp. I did not just quit caring, but it got kind of numb. Whatever. What does this mean? What do I have to do? What do I have to take? Will it get better?


Is there like, cake, for people that get long lists of unspecific symptoms diagnosis? Because I am really hoping there is cake because this fucking sucks. I did plenty of testing, where is the cake?


Come home and say “looks like they think I have blargity blarg.” They ask what they can do at home, because my family is awesome, but they kind of get the blank slump I get now too. Then we just kind of sit and commiserate in the suck for a little bit and move on with this new word in our lives.


Ask the pharmacist to check for interactions because I can fucking care less at this point. Sure. 

Wait for the referral call for the specialist which will do one of two things: tell me they cannot help me and bounce me back to my GWP, or start running tests and writing more Rxs and suggesting life changes. Whatever. All of which I will heed, it is just rare to care about it anymore. Or maybe not care, but have an emotional reaction other than the mild cry I am sure to have that night.


Which is why I hardly ever mention the recent (months ago) IBS thing that came up. Yeah, my body party was not rocking enough, you know? Heh. And I lost coverage just as that was getting started, so I have an Rx and some advice on life changes and that’s it. Other than what it does to my every fucking day and life in general, it’s actually kind of hard to care about it specifically, at this point, you know?

Seriously, where is the cake?


What is this morning? Lupus flare? Fibro spots giving me daggers today? Tesla coil -esque electric charges up my back? Joints upset over the lingering weather pressure border turning my Human Barometer status into a nightmare? Can I stay more than 15 feet away from the bathroom today? This week? Do I have spatial coordination today? Will I need my cane or my chair if I have to go out? Can I go out if I have to go out? What is the definition of “must” today? How are the headaches? Big today?


What is an adequate day under these standards?


Take up the standard "dress to play even if you know you will be on the bench." Get dressed every day, because not is a tacit acknowledgement that the world spins without you, and even on days you are okay with this fundamental fact, other people expect you to be as not okay with it as they are with the idea regarding themselves.

Fucking hellooooo! Where is the damn cake?


Friday, November 16, 2012

ProPatient: Carpal Tunnel Surgery

Monday I had open carpal tunnel surgery. I had a hard time finding personal resources on what to do, what to expect, and how to plan before and after. So here is my experience, along with whatever advice I have for other folks going through the same thing. Be warned, I am an asshole, so for folks finding this in a search, this material will reflect me.

Read more after the jump. This is a long one!

Friday, May 11, 2012

Gun Culture and Privilege

(This is kind of rambling. I apologize. I am swimming through a mess of fog and phlegm with suspected strep throat. Read or disregard at your leisure.)

Wow, gun culture is some taking some swats lately. Some deserved, some not. I do want to say that I do not know a single gun owner that is an NRA member or has two nice words to say about that organization. I know they are out there, let me tell you about my last gun show. I do not really feel bugged by these swats, because I know I am not their target. I only worry that others will think that it is me.

I carry because I am a crippled lady that simply is not able to physically defend against even the average foe. I carried when able bodied because I was a woman driving on highways and country roads at night alone. I have carried because my personal defense is my personal responsibility. My self defense is my own civic responsibility.

And you know what? At the range, practicing to end a life if necessary, I can honestly tell you that 100% of the time I am imagining a white person at the other end of my barrel. Usually a man, but there have been a couple of women in my life that have altered that for brief periods of time.

I mentioned because it keeps sticking in my head. One of the reasons that people fight the idea of privilege is that if you are a woman, or poor, or disabled, or LGBTQIA - it is hard to feel it like the people telling you about privilege want you to feel it. They will point up the hierarchy and say that's who you want to talk to if you want privilege.

This is because there is a funny thing about whiteness: it seems that it must have something to destroy. The days of open colonialism are rapidly closing in favor of "nation building" and "fighting them over there." But our dirty little secret is that in the absence of non-white folk to destroy, in any single or combination of physically, economically, spiritually, mentally; we destroy ourselves. There is no greater cannibal in history than whiteness.

Without a state of non-whiteness to unite against, whiteness turns in and eats itself: the disabled, the non-straight, the poor, the non-Christian, the non-Western, even the non-male get consumed and suppressed. And so, it becomes difficult to explain to a poor, USian, disabled, Wiccan, trans* lesbian that she has white privilege. Because Whiteness, as an entity, only includes her among it's ranks against some Other.

She does have privilege, and it does matter; all of her other states matter too.

I think we need a new vocabulary, one that that can talk about privilege without stigma. One that can acknowledge oppression without pity. A new language, or a new attitude about language needs to be born. Soon. I thought #Occupy would birth it, but it seems not. But maybe something will come after #Occupy, or inspired by - I do not know. But I think it will play it's part. I think we are still building those bridges, and it feels like we are approaching some sort of apex.

Tuesday, May 8, 2012

Dear Ann Romney

Dear Ann Romney,


Hello! Recently you have been out in the public telling folks that you understand the struggles of women. Women in America that are not you.That you love the mother that has no choice but to work. Your quote does not seem any better in context. And yet, in your national tour, you still do not understand me.


You and me, we have some things in common. We are both women in America. We both suffer the indignities of living in a culture that is still short of valuing either of us as equals. We are both mothers in a culture that does not value the work of raising our young.


We have less in common than you think.


As a disabled mother, the culture questions whether or not I can be a good mother, or should even try. Disabled women are still, to this day, sterilized against their will, or forced to give up their children for adoption. We are often forced to prove that we will be adequate mothers.


As a poor mother, I am blamed for my poverty and told I was irresponsible to even have children. And no, you cannot understand how it feels to have the water shut off as you are drawing a bath for your baby, and wondering if you should skip the bath and save the water for making formula in case you cannot get your water access back. It was not as if I decided I would be a poor mom raising poor babies. That is not how it happens. You have not ever dealt with the indignatities of seeking out help, nor then tied to hide the fact that you are getting help from everyone else. Nor have you dis-invited someone from your home because in his fevered mind it was okay to sit in your living room and rant about welfare queens!


As a white mother, you, I and our children are granted privileges by society. But are you agonizing over making sure your children truly understood the consequences of race in America? Do you deliberately live in a non-white neighborhood so your children will be better adjusted regarding race than you were? Are you constantly working with them so that they are not more white blights on this society and culture?


As the mother of daughters, it is imperative that I teach my girls how to interact with a world that is hostile to them by default. They have to know how to recognize and deal with sexism when they see it. They need to know how our culture treats rape and rape victims. Do your kids need this armor?


As a bisexual mother, I am acutely aware of the bigotry that LGBTQAI kids face in their day to day lives. Mrs. Romney, do you ever wonder if your kids are going to get beaten over who they may love? Maybe you may share a few of my concerns as a poly mother, given your church's history on marriage. Hell, often people mistake polyamory for polygamy although one is simply uncommon, the other illegal.


You do not know what it is like for the state to screw with you month to month on how much medical care, food, or straight up cash you need to live. But you will tell people that it is too much. Living off of investment dividends is not the same thing. Just stop that ignorant nonsense.


We are what we are. There is no inherent shame in being born well to do and continuing with your well to do life. When you say that your experiences parallel the experiences of others you have never even truly seen, let alone spoken to - you are lying. And there is shame in that.


I do not know you or your life, and I do not claim to know. You, however, gleefully act like you are intimately familiar with my life, and I want you to back the hell off of it. 


Most sincerely,


PatientC



Wednesday, April 18, 2012

Words and Political Correctness



I had the opportunity the other day to participate in a terrific community discussion about political correctness, specifically referencing things like A-line ribbed tank tops, the use of the word "rape" in a gaming environment and others. And I want to explore the idea of political correctness here. No links or anything, just trying to iron out some ideas and see what they are.


I want to set some hyperbole aside. When we talk about social political correctness, we are not talking about laws at any level. There are no Jack Booted Language Police. We are simply dealing with social norms. And those can very from nation to nation, culture to culture, house hold to house hold. And just like every other social norm, we are all constantly juggling one to another as we go through our days and our lives.


No law, no physical impediment keeps you from using a politically incorrect word or phrase or idea in conversation or media. The gripe is that if you do value your right to a word over the potential offense or harm it may cause, your may be viewed as someone that does exactly thatThe problem is not the use of this word or that word. They can still be used. The only penalty is that your peers may, may see you as someone that values their right to a word over their hurt, offense, or harm. 


The social price of political incorrectness is being thought of as an asshole. 


I want you, Gentle Reader, to know that I did not start over here, although I wish I had. I started over there, demanding my rights to words and other people's right's to words. I am a greater fan of the 1st Amendment than the 2nd Amendment - and I value them both quite highly.


I had not considered every one else's right to exist at least with my indifference, if not any benevolence. But those other people, they should not have to guard themselves every time they are among other people. They should not walk in fear that I may throw them back to an abusive marriage or a sexual assault just because they had to go to the store. They should expect the world to be as indifferent, neutral, or benevolent to them as you expect it to be for you.


What happens when you are brought to someone else's pain is that you are being trusted with it. If I say to you that a particular phrase or word is upsetting to me, you have two decisions to make:
  • You either believe, or not. I have a responsibility to be honest, and I will probably even try to be patient if my situation is not one that you could have been expected to be tuned into. But then you either believe me, and take me at my word that something is offensive to me personally or maybe I say that as one of their number, some of these folks are offended by that. You can educate yourself as much as you like later, that would actually be great. But in this moment, it is simple trust issue.
  • You either care, or not. While that may sound cruel to the person being asked to stop offending, upsetting, or harming - I guarantee that it is less cruel then being asked to forgive or ignore someone while they knowingly do harm to you whenever, however they see fit, forever. Because whatever burden you carry is simply unimportant to them. 
That is it. 
  • If you believe and care, you work to change a language habit (you do not really "lose" a word in any actual sense), and you show a wounded someone that there is at least one person out there not willing to knowingly hurt them further. 
  • If you care but don't believe, you start asking or teasing about exactly that harmful thing, maybe discounting the very idea, or act like the stated harm is over-reacting. Hey, maybe you ask friends and strangers around you if this thing "is really offensive?" Because: 1st Amendment. You may change your language use if you do research that confirms, or other people concur.
  • If you do not believe and do not care, then you will change nothing about your habits, maybe dig into the wound a little bit, you know, to prove it is not there. Because: "plenty of people go through more and aren't crying." 
  • If you believe and do not care, then hopefully you are apathetic, but maybe you dig into that wound often and deep, you know, to help them "get over" their sensitivity. Maybe you envision yourself as some sort of Devil's Advocate. As if the person trying to trust you has not had enough of true adversaries.
There are other options, and many other factors that may influence a particular situation, but I am comfortable with those four as likely types of outcomes.


I have said before, and I truly believe it: "Political correctness is a quick and easy guide to avoid being seen as an asshole if you are not, in fact, an asshole."

I truly do not understand how being conscientious of another person's history, or that of a group of people, is walking on eggshells, or some other surrender of personal power. Why is it a problem to have to think about these people with a problem? Surely they have to consider you. Why is it not a instead a strength to be in a more grounded, solid group free or nearly free of such angst, pain, distrust, suspicion and harm?



Sunday, March 4, 2012

Poverty and Rand

The following contains my ramblings on some posts elsewhere about Ayn Rand, her views on poverty, and particularly how her ideological followers (whether they call themselves Objectivists, Randians or not) view and treat poverty. I have edited these slightly to make them make sense on their own, and for some grammar errors, or for clarification. Additions will be marked {thus}.

If you want to see a simulation of how an Objectivist society would go down, play Bioshock.

Enjoy!

~~~

When I first read (Ayn) Rand as a teenager, I loved her "perusing your own skills/ideals/whatnot to your own perfection" world view, but even then had trouble with her economics. As an adult, I do think there are things in her writing worth considering. My enormous trouble with her comes not from the fact that she has a economic ideology that I vehemently disagree with, but from what she does with it and how she expresses it. She had a fanatical hatred for the poor, calling them parasites and insisting that the world would be better off if they were removed from it (not lifted out of poverty by opportunity). That is more than a simply economic philosophy. She had a pathology about it. The irony is that when in dire straits herself she made use of the same safety net that she pontificated so loudly against.

And do not get me started on her Objectivist followers, they are such a hot mess it would take days to spell out everything wrong with their stances.

~~~

{On hating someone for being poor and apparently slothful.} Okay, but does that make any sense, either? Hating someone for something like that? And the very idea "people who were happy to remain poor" is bizarre, it makes no sense and has no reality in it whatsoever. But she did seem to think that such existed, and were a blight.

You are fine - I did not see it as semantics. And this is why it is important to really analyse literature, particularly when the author is openly promoting a particular world view. The saddest thing about Rand (besides the hypocrisy of her later life) is that it is really difficult to have a conversation like this where we talk about the ideas and do not degrade each other.

~~~

You cannot expect people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps when they have no boots.

In one hundred percent of my lived experience and anecdotal experiences I have been able to pursue, there is always a reason for not being able to take advantage of an opportunity. No one, I assert, no one is "happy" being poor. Some are making the best of their circumstances, and good for them if they can. Usually, people making that claim have no idea of the chasm between being on state sponsored assistance and becoming self-sufficient. Often, the job openings available cannot help bridge that chasm. But now we are getting past common perceptions of poverty and getting into the reality of it, and I do know know if this is a venue where that is desired, or if it is a part of the conversation worth getting into right now.

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Eh, given that most state's assistance is not enough to live on, let long live a life of leisure, I have a hard time believing that. Are their some cases of welfare fraud? Sure. But the myth of the Welfare Queen, living a life of luxury courtesy of the state is just that: a malicious, ridiculous, and downright stupid myth. But the Randians eat it up and have made it a central pole in their tent of misguided self righteousness.

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Ah, I see now. Thanks for the discussion, but you have some dead give a ways in your last two posts that lead me to believe we are not going to actually get anywhere with further discussion.

Because we could get into the weeds and prove that if you have children to care for, or conditions that require constant medical coverage, or any number of situations that make the gap between getting your first couple of paychecks and when the state cuts you off simply too wide for too many people - but you illustrate above that such would not really mean much to you. {I have done the math before, for multiple states - usually the new aid for an additional child will not even cover diapers, let alone be "extra money" in any way.}

I have lived, and am currently, living these situations. I am finding this a unique phenomena, the linking of morality to financial success or lack of it. It is bizarre. Not to knock you, specifically, I mean that it is a weird cultural thing. 

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{The conversation mostly devolved at that point. Reading the above, the poster took what I said and turned it into a tirade against them. It was a beautiful illustration of both missing the point, and turning logic into a personal attack. The poster also was apparently unaware that I am disabled, that that, yes indeed, they were talking about me. But this issue was bigger than that.}

Hmm, in my two paragraphs I do not see any twisting or manipulating - or even any of the extrapolation that would allow such. Hell, I did not even say that you were one of the people comfortable punishing poor people, only that perhaps you could educate me on their mindset. You do protest too much, I think.

And it is about me. It is about you. It is about everyone. It is about the poor. It is about the people that have been poor. It is about the people that will be poor. It is about everyone. And so, yeah, I am pretty damn uncomfortable with blanket moral judgments towards "the poor" as a group. Especially "slothful" - because that has to come from someone that has never been poor, because being poor is damn hard work. I do find it a convenient landmark, though, because the people that throw the word around obviously are completely disconnected from the work of just being poor. The running around, the appointments, the paperwork, the requirements just to receive any kind of aid - they do make you work for it. Hell, Disability alone takes an average of two to three years to resolve a case.

Most USian households are one paycheck, one health calamity, one car accident, from suddenly being poor. Do they deserve your moral indignation? No, they do not. But it is far too common to find your own "Welfare Queen or King" and decide that this morally bankrupt person is the face of the poor. Never mind that most aid is given to white house holds that simply had that one paycheck calamity. Or were downsized. Or became disabled. The true face of poverty in the US is us, you and me, not your "morally bankrupt" scapegoats. Much like in war, the dehumanization of the poor allows us to treat them as this other deserving of what ever they get. lucky for the scraps thrown their way.

There is a preponderance of evidence supporting the fact that we are the face of poverty. Or more appropriately, that you cannot generalize the way you would like to. If I thought I could change your mind, LMGTFY {Let Me Google That For You}, but you can easily do so if you want. You could have done so before this discussion, or during it.

Side note: I do not know about all states, but in mine if you are working on a 4 year degree you are disqualified from receiving help maintaining your household from the state. I know that for a been there, done that fact. Because your full class load keeps you from looking for full time work - so you are not eligible for aid. How is that for irony? Again, the result of policy makers having no contact with reality.